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Thread: Croft Results & Discussion

  1. #1

    Default Croft Results & Discussion

    Last edited by davidan; 10-22-2018 at 10:09 PM.
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    Michael Kolar (aka Hutch)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Soutwest Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,272

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    I definitely enjoy driving the 356, it's a lot of fun to throw around.
    However, I think after last night, it's quite clear it is not competitive against the GTA (or the Lancia, for that matter). The top 3 took off and left us!

    I thought, well, I do have a ton of fuel in this thing, I don't need fuel....I'll load up and take a splash for the mandatory stop, things will sort themselves, etc etc etc.

    That never happened, and those that took fuel seemed to pit in about the same amount of time I did

    The car might be on pace in terms of a hot lap or two, and it might very well hold it's own over the course of a few laps....but, it's clearly inferior over the course of a race.
    Think I might be retiring this thing, in lieu of something a bit more competitive...but we'll see. Will have to test it at the next one, I suppose.

    Fun stuff, and grats to the podium...looked like some good, close racing up there.
    I think I watched the live timer more than the race at times, following those battles.

    See ya next time!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Quebec City, Canada
    Posts
    774

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    Yeah, the 356 is definately competitive for hot lapping (1:44.2 is my PB at Croft), which is how I balanced performance with the other cars. In-race it's a totally different story, I'm not even sure what is the key element.

    Options to make the 356 an atractive alternative:
    1- Heavily ballast all other cars ... - I don't like that approach, but we don't have to fiddle with the car physics. Or lower the 356 mass (-20kg?).
    2- Have the full 904GTS spec engine (195 HP). While easy to do and attractive on paper, I'm pretty sure 8 more ponies would not be enough to gain 1.5/2 sec per lap, on short track at least. I can do a quick test tonight.
    3- Upgrade rear suspension. It's probably the core "problem" of the 356. The swing arm is varying camber like crazy, which amplifies the rear end reaction during cornering. So that limits cornering speed and consistancy from lap to lap. This can be upgraded to a double-wishbone at the expense of historical accuracy (It's highly probable some SCCA racers did it in the late 60's or later).

    Anyhow I did have my share of close action in the early laps, we had a three-way battle that lasted for a good while. Also tried to keep Hernan in my mirrors for a few laps after he left the pits, but the Lancia just had too much. We got the 356 "battle" with Jason and I, which provided plenty of entertainment. I hadn't pit at that point, so there was no question who was going the get checkered first.
    Last edited by Swordsman; 10-22-2018 at 12:14 PM.

  4. #4

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    I agree, Jason- I’d like to keep the car in play, so I think we should add some ballast to the others (and slightly more to the Lancia).

    EDIT: unless Patrice’s better ideas work out
    Last edited by Hutch; 10-22-2018 at 12:13 PM.
    -------------------------------
    Michael Kolar (aka Hutch)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    560

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    That was an intense race, with lots of fighting! I qualified third, could have done better, but didn't manage to put a perfect lap together. Had a great start and was able to get close to Michael and Brette, it was nice to watch them fight for the position. I briefly passed Brette, (after some paint exchange ) probably not even for a lap before he passed me again. Then I was watching them fight again, lots of things happened, we changed positions many times until I decided to go for the pits, right after I lost the lead to Michael. Michael went for the pits the following lap, however I lost some considerable time, probably because he did not change tires. Brette was also pitting one lap later, and somehow he was also quicker in the pits, I was at least 5 seconds behind. Looking at the fuel left in my tank at the end of the race (more than 15L I think) it might have had something to do with it.

    After the pits I was somewhat quicker than both of them, the gap got smaller and smaller, but I also started to run out of time. With only a few minutes left I was right on Brette's tail, but couldn't find a way to pass. When he made a small mistake and took the Jim Clark esses a bit wide forced him to let the inside of the upcoming Barcroft open. I went for it, but the space wasn't enough, and I also think he was oversteering at that moment, making the gap even smaller. What also made things worse was that as soon as I realized that we cannot make the turn without contact I tried to back off by lifting off the throttle in the hopes that it will slow me just enough to let him through, but that just made my car under-steer right into his. The end-result was a contact and a spin for me, some lawn-mowing for Brette, fortunately none of us lost much time. All this happened in a fraction of a second, but seemed really long, especially from the moment I realized there's not much that could have been done to avoid it. Sorry for that Brette.

    Anyhow, this was a great race, thanks everyone, see you next time!

  6. #6

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    - I have a message in to David to see if we can get the results links I've been using working again.
    - What you're not seeing just yet in the results above is the position chart- we had a whopping 10 lead changes in the race last night between me, Brette, and Mihaly!

    That was maybe more fun than I should be allowed to have Quali was extremely competitive- I think I got lucky at the end, as my pole-winning lap finished right on the tail of Jason, which meant I got a healthy tow up the start-finish straight; that may well have accounted for the 2/10ths that got me on pole!

    My experience with the Lancia at Goodwood showed me that it could be fast out of the box, but that it can also burn itself out pretty quickly. I pulled out a little bit of a gap on the start, but did not let myself try to run away from the pack as I had in our first practice race. I was rewarded with intense bumper-to-bumper battles with Brette and Mihaly that lasted for 2/3rds of the race until we had all cycled through the pits. I came out ahead by a few seconds, but was looking at a red left front and a yellow right front, so I spent the final 20 minutes trying to strategically manage the gap while fighting the increasing understeer. It was an intense hour, one of the best races I can remember!

    - It was clear before too long that we were running away from Jason and Patrice, and something has to be done. We'll figure something out over the next few days.
    - The Lancia does seem to have a slight power advantage; more than once I was able to pull Mihaly on the straight. I was driving well last night but my gut tells me the car was helping; not sure yet if the need to conserve in the front-driver is balance enough. We will see how it goes when Brette and I are carrying extra weight next time, and adjust as necessary from there.
    -------------------------------
    Michael Kolar (aka Hutch)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Posts
    357

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    Quote Originally Posted by mms View Post
    That was an intense race, with lots of fighting! I qualified third, could have done better, but didn't manage to put a perfect lap together. Had a great start and was able to get close to Michael and Brette, it was nice to watch them fight for the position. I briefly passed Brette, (after some paint exchange ) probably not even for a lap before he passed me again. Then I was watching them fight again, lots of things happened, we changed positions many times until I decided to go for the pits, right after I lost the lead to Michael. Michael went for the pits the following lap, however I lost some considerable time, probably because he did not change tires. Brette was also pitting one lap later, and somehow he was also quicker in the pits, I was at least 5 seconds behind. Looking at the fuel left in my tank at the end of the race (more than 15L I think) it might have had something to do with it.

    After the pits I was somewhat quicker than both of them, the gap got smaller and smaller, but I also started to run out of time. With only a few minutes left I was right on Brette's tail, but couldn't find a way to pass. When he made a small mistake and took the Jim Clark esses a bit wide forced him to let the inside of the upcoming Barcroft open. I went for it, but the space wasn't enough, and I also think he was oversteering at that moment, making the gap even smaller. What also made things worse was that as soon as I realized that we cannot make the turn without contact I tried to back off by lifting off the throttle in the hopes that it will slow me just enough to let him through, but that just made my car under-steer right into his. The end-result was a contact and a spin for me, some lawn-mowing for Brette, fortunately none of us lost much time. All this happened in a fraction of a second, but seemed really long, especially from the moment I realized there's not much that could have been done to avoid it. Sorry for that Brette.

    Anyhow, this was a great race, thanks everyone, see you next time!
    Yea that was some intense racing with Michael and Mihaly. We went quite a few laps within seconds of each other until I overcooked it in T1 and spun on exit. Sorry for that guys. I think I spun in both of their paths enough they were slowed equally. But I ended up over 5 seconds behind them trying to catch up. Some laps I could take advantage of their battle times, some I lost what little time I gained. Just tried to stay close to see if I could eventually get a break. As Mihaly pointed out, eventually we all pitted a few laps apart. I did not see how much time Michael spent in the pits (must have been brief). But I can assure Mihaly he may have spent too much on refueling. I finished with less fuel and would have taken less if I was not counting on another lap.

    As for the late race close racing spin. My car was getting looser and I was trying to hold my spot. Mihaly was taking the inside about time I was starting to check up for the next turn and the car did a lazy spin on the racing line. Like he said, one car went one way the other the opposite. He probably had a harder recovery than me. But luckily both cars were Ok and we were able to continue to the finish. I lucked out with a small margin. That's the kind of action that makes sim racing interesting!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Mid Atlantic USA
    Posts
    357

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch View Post
    - I have a message in to David to see if we can get the results links I've been using working again.
    - What you're not seeing just yet in the results above is the position chart- we had a whopping 10 lead changes in the race last night between me, Brette, and Mihaly!

    That was maybe more fun than I should be allowed to have Quali was extremely competitive- I think I got lucky at the end, as my pole-winning lap finished right on the tail of Jason, which meant I got a healthy tow up the start-finish straight; that may well have accounted for the 2/10ths that got me on pole!

    My experience with the Lancia at Goodwood showed me that it could be fast out of the box, but that it can also burn itself out pretty quickly. I pulled out a little bit of a gap on the start, but did not let myself try to run away from the pack as I had in our first practice race. I was rewarded with intense bumper-to-bumper battles with Brette and Mihaly that lasted for 2/3rds of the race until we had all cycled through the pits. I came out ahead by a few seconds, but was looking at a red left front and a yellow right front, so I spent the final 20 minutes trying to strategically manage the gap while fighting the increasing understeer. It was an intense hour, one of the best races I can remember!

    - It was clear before too long that we were running away from Jason and Patrice, and something has to be done. We'll figure something out over the next few days.
    - The Lancia does seem to have a slight power advantage; more than once I was able to pull Mihaly on the straight. I was driving well last night but my gut tells me the car was helping; not sure yet if the need to conserve in the front-driver is balance enough. We will see how it goes when Brette and I are carrying extra weight next time, and adjust as necessary from there.
    Awesome racing Michael. Thanks for hosting another season!

    Yea it would be interesting to have the results links. I'm not sure how close our times were up front. But I have to agree that the Porsche is not going to be able to compete as things are. I can understand Jason and Patrice's concern. I had played with it some and was hoping it would be a good option for me. But, I could not do fast or consistent enough laps in it. Good choices in your Lancia strategy Michael. I agree that it may have an advantage even on the GTA. Maybe some weight penalties will help bring things together properly. I just hope it doesn't compromise the handling or tire wear too much for either car. I guess we'll have to do some experiments based on average times in each.

    BTW, once we make some of these Power/Weight adjustments, will we end up driving the car liveries we chose in the sign-up thread? No rush. Just wanted to mention I keep getting the #2 Blue GTA (not #55) so far.
    Last edited by Brette Brooks; 10-22-2018 at 06:47 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    2,075

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    Porsche 356 SC?

  10. #10

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    @ Brette, yes, I entered your car number when I set up the server earlier tonight. Turns out I had missed yours and Brent’s too.

    Also, results above are fixed, thanks David!
    Last edited by Hutch; 10-22-2018 at 10:42 PM.
    -------------------------------
    Michael Kolar (aka Hutch)

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