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Thread: XD ENGINE MONITOR, RealFeel and CrewChief

  1. #1
    Joe Miller is offline Established Member
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    Default XD ENGINE MONITOR, RealFeel and CrewChief

    Here are some tools that I use for rFactor.

    XD link

    NEW RealFeel link

    CrewChief
    Last edited by Joe Miller; 09-08-2017 at 09:53 PM.
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  2. #2
    Joe Miller is offline Established Member
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    If anyone needs help with this stuff let me know.
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  3. #3
    Gilles Lalonde's Avatar
    Gilles Lalonde is offline Established Member
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    Hi all, Joe,

    Every one should let RealFeel create it's own RealFeelPlugin.ini file and mod that one. Using one from somewhere often include... weird values. Having a SteerForceInputMax at 65535 doesn't really matter as it still gonna work but RealFeel max values are no more than 11500. 65535 will be interpreted like 11500 but so is 32767. Only values below 11500, like 9500, would have any effect.

    Here is some of the stuff I found out:

    Code:
    MaxForceAtSteeringRack:
    Larger number = less steering forces, also less clipping (if you had any before) negative or positive numbers should be kept, so you can go from -4000 to -5000 to reduce the FFB and reduce clipping. If the car has a positive value, say 8000, going to 9000 will slightly reduce the steering forces and reduce clipping.
    Making the values smaller does the opposite, but beware of clipping. You don't want the higher half of the forces to disappear in a cloud of clipping.
    
    SteeringDamper:
    This is the max change of FFB per 'time unit' basically.. Smaller numbers will make make the wheel not react as quickly to fast changes in force. Its not a pure damper but kinda works like one.
    We use 11500 everywhere because we want EVERY change in sim physics FFB to be sent to your wheel.
    Perhaps if we ever do a 1950s Cadillac we may adjust this value but really just keep it at 11500.
    
    FFBMixerRealFeelPercent
    Leave at 100. Sure you can mix with 'vanilla' FFB or with LeoFFB but I would advise against that. You would just be adding more variables that are tricky to judge into a blend that you most likely don't quite have control over.. More parameters isn't always better! :)
    
    FrontGripEffect
    This will reduce FFB as tire slip angle increases. Fundamentally realistic but the execution isn't perfect because it also mutes the suspension forces, rather than just the tire forces. You can experiment between 0 and 1, I typically don't like to go beyond 0.25.
    
    SmoothingLevel
    This is just a smoothing filter which will attempt to smooth spikes in the FFB, at the cost of some latency. I prefer as low latency as possible so I always use 0, as we do in our supplied settings. Bigger cars like the Camaro will purely from their physics feel smoother in FFB than a kart for example.
    
    Kf, Ks, A, Kr
    These are the ''parking lot'' FFB parameters from LeoFFB. These are only active at very low speed, and should not be felt once you are driving, even in a hairpin.
    
    Kf: is the maximum force you feel when the car stands still, to turn the tires. 11500 is max.
    Ks: is the stiffness of the tires, a higher number will make it feel less 'elastic'
    A: escapes me at the moment! sorry! :)
    Kr: How fast all of the above fall away as car speed increases. At higher values the forces drop off quicker as you speed up.
    
    These last 4 numbers should NOT affect the car at all at racing speed. They just give the steering some weight and elasticity when you stand still. This is because the proper physics are not active at 0km/h and only start to work when you pick up some speed.
    
    Kr we have often at about 3, which is actually makes some of the standstill forces still remaining at low speeds.
    
    Very important: Kf, Ks, A and Kr don't affect the feeling at normal speeds, unless Kr is too small or the slowest corner on the track is super super slow.
    
    Separating RealFeel from the Parking Lot values
    To tweak the actual driving forces, you can turn the parking stuff off by setting:
    Kf=0
    
    To feel just the parking lot forces and how they diminish as you go faster, use
    MaxForceAtSteeringRack=1000000000
    This makes the physics forces almost zero so all you feel are the Kf, Ks, A and Kr values. If you do that with Kr at 10 and then with Kr at 0.5, you will feel very well how these parking forces fall away with increasing car speed.
    
    
    Quick and Easy:
    Forces *when actually driving* are the most important.
    Set Kr fairly high, say 6, to make sure the parking lot FFB is never active when you actually drive at speed.
    
    Then all you have to tweak is the MaxForceAtSteeringRack as described above, and some subjective FrontGripEffect.
    In game, the FFB strength % is a great way to change the overall forces you feel. FFB can be set to 'LOW' for most wheels.
    
    
    High End Wheels (direct drive)
    Higher end wheels might benefit from damping. This can either be adjusted globally in the controller.ini (userdata/yourname/controller.ini) :
    
    FFB steer damper coefficient="0.17500"
    FFB steer damper saturation="1.00000"
    
    These are not used at LOW force settings, so you must run MEDIUM to enable. Keep saturation at 1.0, and adjust the damper from 0.17500 to whatever works for your wheel. On SimSteering wheels I tend to go up to about 0.7, but this can be different for other wheels, plus it is subjective!
    Alternatively, possibly easier, you can leave the in game FFB at 'LOW' and apply some 'overall damping' in your wheel software. On SimSteering for example you can have this 'permanently active damping' this way.
    From post #35 on: RealFeel settings and discussion | Page 2 | RaceDepartment
    Last edited by Gilles Lalonde; 09-08-2017 at 02:38 PM.
    jham, Marc Cohn, faspit and 1 others like this.
    I own crappy boxes... well you know what? 20gigs on a Asus P7P55 LX with an i7-860 running an Asus 560GTX (1gig) on an new AOC Q2963 screen... I'm doing way better! But I still endlessly mod rFactor...

  4. #4
    Gilles Lalonde's Avatar
    Gilles Lalonde is offline Established Member
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    Just noticed Joe included both the RealFeel and the LeoFFB plugin in that download. Nice of him but here is my personal take. But have fun, try them both, you might have better luck!

    Unless you like fiddling around with a bunch of config files, using only the RealFeel is probably better. Why ?


    First, the included Realfeel is version 0.9.3.6 (107,008 bytes), it already includes Leo's parking lot feeling. Running the Leo plugin on top of it, I always had mixed results.
    With LeoFFB, I had a good feeling with the previous version of Realfeel, 0.92 (122,880 bytes), as it doesn't include any of Leo's code. That would be the way to go.

    At present time, I removed Leo and just use the last version of RealFeel.

    Right clicking the RealFeelPlugin.dll file, choosing Properties and then the Details tab will show which version it is. If the File Version field is empty, it's 0.92 or earlier.


    Second, to work well with a specific mod, the LeoFFB.ini file must be adjusted to the car:

    Code:
    15.0	Front Wheel lock angle, degrees (max deflection to one side from straight on)
    0.835	Front wheel distance to centerline (half the front wheel track) in metres, from .pm file
    1.315	Front axle distance to body reference point (about half the wheel base) in metres, from .pm file
    1.2 	Relative strength of FFB effects
    9.0	Aligning moment curve shape / feeling of tyre losing grip. Lower numbers are duller, range 1.0 .. 10
    0.99	Negative aligning moment parameter for high slip angles, range 0.0 ... 1.0
    9.792783580649303	Slip angle where aligning moment reverses direction - typically between 8 and 15 degrees
    0.17453292499999998	Caster (dimetionless)
    1.3333333333333333	Camber ratio (not degrees!)
    1.0	Road bumps feeling on the wheel
    11500.0	Maximum FFB force for stationary and low speed effects
    10.0	Stiffness of stationary wheels
    1.5	Wheel rubber hardness (1..5)
    8.0	How quickly static forces drop off when rolling
    One of the values, "Camber Ratio", Front to Rear ratio, looks like this:
    For the VGTP C6: FrtCamber 2.4 / RrCamber 2.0 = 6:5 = 6 divided by 5 = 1.2
    If you change the camber while practicing, you have to quit rFactor, edit the ini file and restart the game... or at least remember to readjust it before next time.

    Now for the "Slip angle where aligning moment reverses direction"... Tcho that!

    To the rescue comes "Leo's FFB Tuner". A little app that figures all of those value for you. That is, if in the app's settings, you put a check mark in the "Read Caster / Camber values from .SVM files" box. Then for each of the three button at the top of the app, you navigate to the .PM, to the .TBC and to the .SVM files in the folder of the car you're driving in that mod... for every mod you run. Even with my Multiple Installs scheme... I gave up! The Tuner made it super easy but I found it tiresome and prone to mistakes.

    Sure! One can use it with the default values but there are some differences between a slim Formula Ford and an "phat" L88 corvette. Your millage will certainly vary.

    HF

    Ooops! Forgot: Unless you lower the RealFeellMix (FFBMixerRealFeelPercent in the RealFeelPlugin.ini) you will not feel any of Leo's feedback.

    More info here... even if the pics are gone, the explanations are a must.

    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.ph...r-FFB-Tutorial

    I'll shut up now.
    Last edited by Gilles Lalonde; 09-08-2017 at 02:46 PM.
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  5. #5
    Joe Miller is offline Established Member
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    You just scared most of us away. lol. I was under the assumption the leo is only in effect at speeds under 25mph.
    Last edited by Joe Miller; 09-08-2017 at 04:31 PM.
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  6. #6
    Joe Miller is offline Established Member
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    I posted a new RealFeel link, without the LEO's FFB and the ini. You were right I deleted the LEO stuff out of the Plugins folder and felt no difference. It was completely unnecessary. Anyone who downloaded the previous version just delete the Leo's files from your plugins folder.
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  7. #7
    Gilles Lalonde's Avatar
    Gilles Lalonde is offline Established Member
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    I know what I was writing, I knew some readers might back track when understanding that this is not a "drop in the folder and forget" thingamajig.

    But front runners everywhere run RealFeel and many run LeoFFB too. Plus! Experimenting is fun!

    Starting the game without the RealFeelPlugin, getting into it, a dozen lap, quitting the game, dropping RealFeelPlugin.dll in the Plugins folder, restarting the game, run another dozen lap with the default settings...

    Later on, anyone can read the info in my first message and, if the Force is too strong, just augment MaxForceAtSteeringRack from 1500 to 3000.
    If the Feedback to rough, lower SteeringDamper from 11500 to 9500. Just a few tweak. that is not hard.

    ONE THING I FORGOT!
    Some Logitech wheels need the FFB to be negative: MaxForceAtSteeringRack=3000 becomes MaxForceAtSteeringRack=-3000
    For RealFeel 0.9.3 and newer, the Kf value might also prefer a negative value too (but it changes from mod to mod).
    (for Logitech wheel owners, just use v0.92 adjust once and forget.)

    @Joe
    The LeoFFB effects will show up when you either lower the FFBMixerRealFeelPercent.

    In game: by Right-Control + keypad 3 and keypad 1
    In the RealFeelPlugin.ini by adjusting FFBMixerRealFeelPercent from 100 to 50 or 60.
    Last edited by Gilles Lalonde; 09-10-2017 at 11:01 AM.

  8. #8
    Gilles Lalonde's Avatar
    Gilles Lalonde is offline Established Member
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    Oh well.. sometimes... you have to eat your own words.

    I have returned to running LeoFFB as the bumps and curbing of hockenheim were throwing me off.

    I switched Realfeel from version 0.9.3.8 to 0.9.2 since 0.9.3.6 and 0.9.3.8 have Leo's parking lot effect code built in and I did want any conflict.

    Remember that I don't have a powerful wheel. It's quick and sensitive but low power.
    With any recent wheel, MaxForceAtSteeringRack might need to be set to 3000. MaxForceAtSteeringRack is a restriction, higher numbers equal less force.

    So Realfeel for DRM:
    Code:
    [DIVISION I]
    MaxForceAtSteeringRack=1500.000000
    SteeringDamper=11500.000000
    FFBMixerRealFeelPercent=50.000000
    SmoothingLevel=1
    LeoFFB for DRM, set for the 935 with the help of "LeoFFB Tuner":
    Code:
    16.0	Front Wheel lock angle, degrees (max deflection to one side from straight on)
    0.81	Front wheel distance to centerline (half the front wheel track) in metres, from .pm file
    1.2971	Front axle distance to body reference point (about half the wheel base) in metres, from .pm file
    3.0	Relative strength of FFB effects
    4.0	Aligning moment curve shape / feeling of tyre losing grip. Lower numbers are duller, range 1.0 .. 10
    0.99	Negative aligning moment parameter for high slip angles, range 0.0 ... 1.0
    15.077705899211592	Slip angle where aligning moment reverses direction - typically between 8 and 15 degrees
    0.05759586524999999	Caster (dimetionless)
    4.0	Camber ratio (not degrees!)
    4.0	Road bumps feeling on the wheel
    11500.0	Maximum FFB force for stationary and low speed effects
    9.0	Stiffness of stationary wheels
    1.0	Wheel rubber hardness (1..5)
    5.0	How quickly static forces drop off when rolling
    I know feel the dips and bumps.
    I own crappy boxes... well you know what? 20gigs on a Asus P7P55 LX with an i7-860 running an Asus 560GTX (1gig) on an new AOC Q2963 screen... I'm doing way better! But I still endlessly mod rFactor...

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