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Thread: Hockenheim ('75 F1) Post Race Data, Standings, and Discussion

  1. #1
    Jason Whited's Avatar
    Jason Whited is offline Senior Community Leader
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    Default Hockenheim ('75 F1) Post Race Data, Standings, and Discussion

    Last edited by Joe Miller; 06-12-2018 at 09:46 PM.

  2. #2
    AngeloRacer's Avatar
    AngeloRacer is offline Angelo dos Santos
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    Happy to be back to those F1s.
    Happy to drive this amazing Ferrari car.

    So dissapointed with the engine failure. I think I over rev just a tiny bit at times, nothing that justify the outcome. So to me makes no sense, with the temps way bellow the limits, a full engine failure during a conservative upshift.
    I still think that this is exagerated on this Mod, which is shame, because otherwise I enjoy a lot how to drive those.

    Race was good, I was happy with my pace and enjoyed the early laps. Jason was faster and had the control, but he made a mistake and I was on the lead with less than 20 minutes to go. I was pretty sure that Jason would catch me back, but I coudnt reach the end to see it and maybe put a fight.

    Hope for better luck next time.



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    aaron page is offline Established Member
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    Gee, what a night...I figured I was slow enough (and tired enough) to just try to make it to halfway and then just watch the race from the pits, but it didn't work out that way. Didn't bother to Q, and in the very early part of the first lap Tony had trouble, so I gained a spot. Then Nick and I had offs in the same corner near the end of the lap, but his off was 'offer' than my off, so gained another. Caught up with Peter when he had trouble in the chicane, and thought, "Hmmm, maybe stick it out?" I spent lap after lap alone, watching whoever it was behind me gaining on me with every lap (turned out it was Tony). I'd do a good, lap, he'd do a better one, and he finally caught up. That was some tenacious driving, Tony! With only 4 minutes to go, my pit icon came on (damn) and I had to pit for fuel, losing two spots, and thought my race was done. But way up ahead, I saw a cloud of dust, and sure enough it was Tony. Approaching the last lap, he blew up, which was disappointing, because I was excited about hounding HIM for a while :-)
    There's always a good race in the back half of the pack, and Tony, you made this one fun, sir.

  4. #4
    Jason Whited's Avatar
    Jason Whited is offline Senior Community Leader
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    Well, that was.....eventful.

    Long string of "excuses" here, I'll try to shorten it into something legible.

    Honestly, this should have been an easy win. After taking the pole I got a decent enough start and though Angelo went by in T1, he went slightly wide and had to back off so I just pulled a little back under move and off I went. Within some laps I had a really nice gap built up as him and Joe were vying for P2.

    However, I was having issues before the race even started.
    Suddenly, literally out of the blue yesterday evening, the second toe on my right foot started to "ache". ...sort of felt hyper extended and I just chalked it up to over stressed muscles and whatnot, shook it off and tried not to think about it.
    But, it was getting worse and worse, all this within about an hour's time before quali.

    So by quali I was nursing it a bit...didn't help that I was right foot braking, the pain signals dancing in my head as I went from braking to throttle. Brake pedal with the conical mod is quite "heavy" when fully depressed. At 155lbs I can practically stand on it for full brake, though I back it off just slightly in AMS, so maybe something like 50-60lbs of force or somewhere abouts.

    Anyways, during quali finally managed a 1:54.9...I knew it was possible with the car/setup I had, just had to nail it. In actuality, a perfect lap probably would have been nearly a full half second faster than what I took the pole with, but it was good enough and I spent the last 5 minutes or so of quali trying to figure out what the hell was going on with my toe!

    Warm up dwindled down and I started building myself up for the race. ...trying to tell myself to work through the pain, just forget it, just go do the thing and worry with it later.
    Now, real world side that might have worked. And, generally it works sim side as well if I'm having any issues I just focus on thoughts of those real world side that have raced in far worse condition, with far worse issues.

    Last night though, it wasn't working and as soon as the initial adrenaline was gone the pain came back with a bit of vengeance.
    I remember the clock being at the 30 minutes to go mark thinking I might just pull it over and quit out. But I had such a lead, and the points battle being so close, the race meaning so much...I couldn't allow that, I tried to fight through.

    Focus wasn't there, I was treating the pedals (my foot, rather) too delicately, and I missed a shift going into the final corner. By the time I got the gear engaged I still had too much momentum and when I dropped the clutch I didn't get the blip timed right and blocked the rears, around I went. That's the point Angelo went by and I thought all was lost at P1. It was not long after that Angelo's car was coasting to a stop. I thought maybe fuel, but now I see it was engine failure.

    So back in the lead I went with some slightly renewed pain blocking endorphins coursing through my body.
    Didn't take long for that to fade and again focus was lost to the pain reception.

    For some reason, I started overly focusing on fuel. With 15 or so minutes left, I see less than 8 gallons left in the tank (it said about 9 or 10 laps when I first noted it, I think)
    How I miscalculated and thought I was going to run out of fuel, I don't know. Really screwed that up, I had plenty of fuel....but, I thought I was needing to save it and I started short shifting/backing off in the straights, etc.

    With right around 10 minutes left in the race, I had it in my head that I would run out of fuel if I did not conserve and so I gave up the 3 second or so gap I had on Joe and let him overtake me so I could draft a bit. I knew I had the speed to take it back when the need came. I guess it was the low wings, but in a straight line I felt like I had 50 more hp than most other cars. It was a powerful feeling, knowing I could overtake at will.

    But, I got a bit complacent and Joe slipped away...no more drafty for me

    That's about the time I realized my miscalculation on the fuel...started cursing myself, "what the HELL are you doing, you frikkin' IDIOT!!!"
    ...throttle to floor after realizing I've got enough fuel, thinking I just let Joe have it and now he's got 3 seconds on me. Nope, hell with this, I drove angry and next thing I know I'm right back in position.

    With the seemingly superior performing car, I simply retook the lead at will (a first for sure!) and off I go, reestablishing my gap.

    At that point, I had it in the bag...but the pain in my toe had increased dramatically during all this. Nothing about the race or the lead or the fact that I was able to recover like I did was "enjoyable" at that point. None of it mattered because the only thing in my head was....PAAAAIIIINN!

    With a lap and a half to go, I say something to the effect of, "well, I damn near screwed that up and embarrassed myse.........." And in that exact moment I blocked the rears on a crap downshift in the second chicane. The ginger, soft, pain filled foot struck again. Literally like some announcers curse or something. Ridiculous bit of murphy's law right there.

    Why I blocked the wheels that last time, I don't know...but off I went and into the wall, substantial damage. It was all I could do to cross the finish line, only to realize there was "one lap to go".
    I nearly quit out at that point, but thought better of it knowing the points situation (in the scheme of things, it probably didn't matter. I'll need miracles from hence forth for that to be important)

    Somehow managed to hold onto second, and didn't wreck the half broken car again.

    .................................................. ........
    Apologies for dipping out on TS after the race. The pain had grown quite intense and I went to see what was going on.
    Thought perhaps an insect had bit me while I was mowing yesterday, but that wasn't it...too localized and no obvious signs of anything like that.

    I have this long story about breaking my big toe back in the day. Broke it at the growth plate, bone protruded, spent two weeks walking on it not realizing that was bone that split the top of my toe, thought it was a cut. TLDR version, infection set up and I had an emergency surgery...pin in my toe for a few months, toenail removed to release the infection. Dr said another day or two and they'd have had to amputate my leg at the knee. Long time ago...but, point here is, I know intense pain in that region and for the most part my pain tolerance is exceptionally high I think.

    However, the pain last night and this morning is much like that pain in the way it is sending pain signals to my brain. It's like a tooth ache and without compound fracture and/or infection it's hard to realize that a single toe could cause such discomfort, but alas....

    ...some kind of "Capsulitis of the Second Toe" is the best I've came up with this morning. Seems rather specific and is basically an exact description of what is going on at the moment.
    For the curious amongst us.... about capsulitis.

    So, seems like I might be doing a bit less racing, at least until I get this addressed and healed up. No idea how long it will last, never had this type of issue and it was about as sudden as some medical issue could be. Nearly boggles my mind as I was fine without a sign of this crap until last night.

    Anyways, I guess it's as they say..."have your excuses ready". Quite cliche, and I hate cliches....but it's the truth this time round.

    ...............................................

    Grats to Joe on being persistent and the win here. I intend to heal this issue and I reckon the heat is on at Spielberg to save some face (and my freakin' pride!)

    Thanks to all that showed up. Summer is definitely here and the numbers are showing it. Glad to see the core still plodding around out there though. Just the waxing and waning that happens each year, I think.

    See you guys next time.

  5. #5
    Bruno Chacon is offline Junior Member
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    What a crazy race!
    On the day of the race visiting the pages of the MNRL forum, I saw that they had other cars available and that I was already tired of fighting the heavy BRM. I requested the exchange for Embassy Hill # 22 and I was very happy. The car behaves differently from BRM, much lighter and its balance better.
    The performance of the car's engines are the same but their weight and balance are different and that has changed a lot!
    I left well, passing Gilles and Brette but I knew it would be for a little while and then they passed me.
    Then Gilles screwed up a few times to the point that I managed to overtake him and then he recovered and passed me again.
    On lap 9, I was following Gilles waiting for another mistake from him when i got very strong from the T1 and went straight to the guard-rail, losing the beak of the car. I made it all the way back carefully, going to the pit and losing 28 seconds. Before the crash, I had a comfortable lead of 23 seconds ahead of Aaron and on leaving the pit, he and Tony had more than 25 seconds ahead of me.
    I drove like crazy! taking the advantage they had very slowly and all the time looking at the engine temperature, changing the gears before the shift light, dying for fear that the engine could not handle the effort (I should have stretched more at 5).
    Arriving near the end of the race, I was 11 seconds from Tony and 15 from Aaron when Tony broke his engine and Aaron entered the stall and 5th place fell on my lap, since I could not make a difference because although it was faster, both Tony and Aaron were very consistent.
    Reading what Jason wrote, I understood what had happened to him and made him miss the most won and easy race he would have had. Too bad Jason this has happened to you.
    Increasingly I like to race with these cars and I look forward to MNRL's upcoming single-season season.
    Congratulations Joe for consistency in the race and even the victory having fallen on his lap, his leadership in the championship is firm and consistent.
    Last edited by Bruno Chacon; 06-13-2018 at 11:37 AM.

  6. #6
    Tony Boynton's Avatar
    Tony Boynton is offline Established Member
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    I was excited about this race; the Penske felt very solid with the recent 1.4 patch Gilles and Brette provided us. I used a basic setup Jason shared during practice a few days before the race. Made no setup changes trying for more speed as I knew that would be trouble for me as the tires get a little slippy near the end even without the abuse I was sure to inflict on them.

    However, my plan for hanging on a few seconds behind the leaders and not getting lapped got bollocksed at the start -- the green lights didn't appear where I expected and I started moving when I saw two cars ahead go and then backed down a bit not to bump the car ahead. So we accelerated into T1 and still a little irked by the start, I pushed too hard full fuel and drove right off the left side into the grass and went from P7 to last and many seconds behind. Oh well, the car was fine, so just drive fast as I can and see what happens.

    Lap 2 - Coming around T1 I could see a car up ahead, so he must have found trouble and fallen back, now just in front of me. I was moving up pretty fast, thinking I'd draft through the next turn and get a run maybe, but all of a sudden I drove right up the tail of the Shadow and pushed Nick off the track. My car was ok and I kept going, though it dawned on me to maybe stop and wait which is of course the right thing to do, but I did not and kept watching my mirror so I could slow if Nick appeared, I'd let him go ahead, but I didn't see the car. I'm not sure when I saw the message that he'd garaged the Shadow, so I kept trucking. Nick, I'm sorry for the contact. On reviewing the tape from both cars, it looked to me that your engine blew up just as I was trying catch you for a draft. (a premonition of what lay ahead for me.)

    As Aaron related in his post, mid-way through the race I could see him far ahead, but visable, so I kept pressing on and eventually got within a couple of seconds back, but then I got excited and lost it in the Stadium section. Lost another seven seconds, which got me lapped as I had to let the 3 lead cars go by before getting back on track. But, kept trying to catch up again--the thought crossed my mind that if I had twenty more laps I might be able to catch him! You're right, Aaron, it can be a lot of fun in the back if you find somebody to play with.

    On lap 22 I was still pushing and I'm sure that little red light was on a lot and the Penske done blowed up! Lead foot strikes again.

    Still, a fun race and I'm really loving these cars! The sounds are AWESOME in my headset.

    Congrats to the podium guys and all who managed to avoid me spinning across the track.

    See ya at Spielberg!
    Last edited by Tony Boynton; 06-13-2018 at 10:07 PM. Reason: (SP)

  7. #7
    Brette Brooks's Avatar
    Brette Brooks is offline Established Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Whited View Post

    However, the pain last night and this morning is much like that pain in the way it is sending pain signals to my brain. It's like a tooth ache and without compound fracture and/or infection it's hard to realize that a single toe could cause such discomfort, but alas....

    ...some kind of "Capsulitis of the Second Toe" is the best I've came up with this morning. Seems rather specific and is basically an exact description of what is going on at the moment.
    For the curious amongst us.... about capsulitis.

    So, seems like I might be doing a bit less racing, at least until I get this addressed and healed up. No idea how long it will last, never had this type of issue and it was about as sudden as some medical issue could be. Nearly boggles my mind as I was fine without a sign of this crap until last night.
    Ouch DUDE! I got a little queasy just reading that Capsulitis URL. At least until I read the 'FOOTNOTES' and found it can cause an unwarranted fear of LOW FUEL! That explains everything! Seriously, since it is inflaming of the ligament there, you should be able to recover if you just give it a nice break from whatever you were doing to stress that ligament. If it doesn't go away with a few days of normal use or comes back easy, you should seek out professional treatment to prevent it from affecting the surrounding ligaments.

    My race was a lot more mundane than most I guess. Once I got over the single light surprise start, I pulled into line quickly enough and was able to hit my marks pretty well for most of the race. I may have over blipped going into that back corner once and did miss a single downshift into T1, but it got lonely after the front three slowly pulled away and Gilles was dealing with an occasional spin (grumble...grumble in chat). So it was mostly racing the track trying not to make any major errors and waiting for a possible break up front. I didn't expect Angelo to have an engine expire or Jason to have a late race foot fiasco. I doubt Joe did either. But you have to be there in case an opportunity arises. Grats to Jason for his ability to keep the car going more than a lap under those circumstances. I was closing fast at the end.

    My favorite part of the track was trying to power thru that back corner turn lifting as little as possible with a slight power drift. My least, or maybe most careful, was trying to power it thru the last two turns in the stadium leading to the S/F. The first one had a different approach than the last (with more banking than I initially observed), and its exit had an influence on the flatter but important last turn entry. But, nailing the first turn probably yielded the best results with that long stretch on its exit. I was more consistent there in the race than I had predicted (must have been the lone approach focus). Didn't hurt that I had spun there a few times during practice laps with some disappointing damage.

    Re. the engine damage that keeps popping up for some: I learned my engine revs. lesson with this car at Buenos Aires, as did several of us. After watching my revs in that replay, I could see I was over revving a little too much and often - mostly during my shifts. In relative terms this car seems to withstand some engine braking better than some mods we have had as long as you don't cram successive downshifts too fast without adequate braking also. But it does not like to be revved above about 10250K revs without a load (while shifting). One long and high zing above that mark can cook it. However, most of the engine expiring I have seen is an accumulation of several brief revs in the 10300 to 10500 range - mostly caused by inadequate or poorly timed lifting during shifts. Interlagos was a good training ground for me to try and match the gearing and my shift points to the engine and track (especially climbing those cutbacks in the 3rd sector). I blew a few in practice sessions leading up to that race, but kept my right foot in check during the race. The silver lining with most of these engines that seem too sensitive is that the last 500 to 700 rpms we inadvertently try to milk out of them does not yield increased power (it usually drops off there). So it is easy to justify retraining your shift points to a safe margin below the redline. You just need to decide what that margin is to make sure you don't exceed the redline too much (or none ideally)! I would also agree with Jason's comment about this being closer to real than not. Check the records. There were still a lot DNFs for engine and other mechanical failures, even in the 70s with most teams using the same well proven DFV V8.

    Grats to Joe on the win! You can take it easy now...NOT!!!
    Last edited by Brette Brooks; 06-13-2018 at 10:32 PM.

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