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Thread: Just experimented with a load cell for the first time - IS THIS WITCHCRAFT!?!?!?

  1. #1
    Marc Cohn is offline Senior Member
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    Default Just experimented with a load cell for the first time - IS THIS WITCHCRAFT!?!?!?

    Wayne was kind enough to send me a Fanatec Clubsport V1 pedal set along with the G27 that I'm giving to my girlfriend and after some minor tweaks including using DXTweak2 (which includes saveable profiles) since the Fanatec one is confusing (Downlaod file - Avsim.su), I gave them a test drive in rFactor while testing out the G27.

    End result? Well, to give you an analogy, my ECCI pedals are phenomenal pieces of equipment. The hall sensors on the pedals are extremely smooth, the gas spring has a slight enough amount of resistance so it doesn't feel like jelly (allowing better throttle modulation), the clutch is stiff allowing for smoother launches, and the brake goes from a light input at first to very hard at that point where you are really squeezing the rotors.

    The Fanatecs? Gas pedal and clutch pedal springs in my mind could be a lot stronger, hall sensors could be better too. The brake? Well, at first I was a bit perturbed by the idea of a brake that has barely any travel and feels really stiff. In previous experiences with load cell and hydraulic-equipped pedal sets, I've felt that they were too stiff to really get on the binders, making it counter-intuitive. Trying these Fanatecs for a couple of laps? I really had to overdo it to get the brakes locked and otherwise the muscle memory required in using force to measure brake pressure almost made threshold braking feel like cheating because it made it THAT much easier.

    Now the question remains, are these load cells WITCHCRAFT? The other important question - can I make my ECCIs feel this good by moving the 2-stage PMB2 brake spring mount to the heavy setting?
    Last edited by Marc Cohn; 02-15-2018 at 01:19 PM.

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    Troy Dalton's Avatar
    Troy Dalton is offline KEEP CALM and SIM RACE
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    This is quite the timely question, as I've been wondering the same thing, but from the reverse perspective. Back in Nov. I purchased the CSL Elite bundle from Fanatec and when the pedals arrived, I simply put the box in storage. It is still in it's original packaging. Then last week Fanatec sent me a 45% discount for a load cell brake, so I bought it. Yea, why buy a load cell for pedals you'll never use, but I figured I could resell the pedals easier if I offered them with a load cell.

    The load cell is scheduled to arrive tomorrow and that got me wondering if they might actually be a viable option after all. I doubt it, because I have a set of ECCI with 2-stage PMB2 and it is the bomb diggity. The ECCI's were great, but the addition of the 2-stage PMB2 was incredible. Having read your post, I'm really curious how much they differ, because I always assumed that load cells would be sponging in comparison.

    I suppose I'm going to have break out those Fanatec pedals after all.
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  3. #3
    Marc Cohn is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Dalton View Post
    This is quite the timely question, as I've been wondering the same thing, but from the reverse perspective. Back in Nov. I purchased the CSL Elite bundle from Fanatec and when the pedals arrived, I simply put the box in storage. It is still in it's original packaging. Then last week Fanatec sent me a 45% discount for a load cell brake, so I bought it. Yea, why buy a load cell for pedals you'll never use, but I figured I could resell the pedals easier if I offered them with a load cell.

    The load cell is scheduled to arrive tomorrow and that got me wondering if they might actually be a viable option after all. I doubt it, because I have a set of ECCI with 2-stage PMB2 and it is the bomb diggity. The ECCI's were great, but the addition of the 2-stage PMB2 was incredible. Having read your post, I'm really curious how much they differ, because I always assumed that load cells would be sponging in comparison.

    I suppose I'm going to have break out those Fanatec pedals after all.
    Troy, you know how the ECCI pedals have the hardness (squeezing-rotors feel) at the end of the brake zone after the soft initial travel? The Fanatec feels like it ONLY has that with the load cell mechanism not having a lot of movement, an effective shortcut if you will that I think is what makes it easier to . The standard PMB2 (as read from previous emails with ECCI) is meant to more represent a passenger car type of profile in that it has the soft initial feel, long travel, and then BAM you have the PMB2 kick in. However, from reading a previous exchange with John Pribble of ECCI, it seems that their Stage 2 and 3 PMBII (at least the profiles - still talking to John who has always provided incredible customer service) may be able to achieve this same feel.

    I'd be curious if you would interested in comparing the two in similar conditions as far as lap time, feel, etc. to see the difference? I don't doubt that the short 'race-car' throw would be a lot to get used to, but after hearing people gaining seconds from Fanatec load cells after using lesser pedal sets, I'd really want to see how they'd compare to something like our ECCIs.

    One correction I should probably make - maybe it isn't the load cell only but just having the shorter travel that I felt was such a difference.

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    DaveS's Avatar
    DaveS is offline Dave Slee
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    I've had load cells on both my Logitech G25 and my Thrustmaster T3PA-Pro pedals and didn't really like them very much so I went back to using the pedals without it. But now that I've got the HE Pro 3 pedals with a load cell on it I love the feeling of it so much better. I might not be any faster with these new pedals but I've been a lot more consistent with them because I can actually feel the braking on the car now.
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    Dave Slee (DaveS)
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  5. #5
    Marc Cohn is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    I've had load cells on both my Logitech G25 and my Thrustmaster T3PA-Pro pedals and didn't really like them very much so I went back to using the pedals without it. But now that I've got the HE Pro 3 pedals with a load cell on it I love the feeling of it so much better. I might not be any faster with these new pedals but I've been a lot more consistent with them because I can actually feel the braking on the car now.
    Just out of curiosity, which load cell kits did you use on those pedal sets? What didn't you like about them?

  6. #6
    mms
    mms is offline Mihaly Marton
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    FYI, you can adjust the feeling of the brakes also by moving the rod that connects the pedal to the brake cell into a different hole in the pedal body. I've tried both the middle one and the one just below, I find that if it's in the middle the brake is really stiff and you don't have much travel, but if you put it in the one below you get more travel and less stiffness. I prefer the second choice as I can modulate the brakes better, but the middle one is fine too once you get used to it.
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    DaveS's Avatar
    DaveS is offline Dave Slee
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    the g25 load cell was purchased from a guy that was making them a few years back, I found that other than having to press really hard for it to work I didn't really get any braking feed back from it. Found the same thing with the load cell for the TM pedals that I purchased from Ricmotech. I spent hours trying to set both of them up to what I expected with no luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Cohn View Post
    Just out of curiosity, which load cell kits did you use on those pedal sets? What didn't you like about them?
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    Dave Slee (DaveS)
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    Brette Brooks's Avatar
    Brette Brooks is offline Established Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mms View Post
    FYI, you can adjust the feeling of the brakes also by moving the rod that connects the pedal to the brake cell into a different hole in the pedal body. I've tried both the middle one and the one just below, I find that if it's in the middle the brake is really stiff and you don't have much travel, but if you put it in the one below you get more travel and less stiffness. I prefer the second choice as I can modulate the brakes better, but the middle one is fine too once you get used to it.
    In addition to the rod placement adjustment Mihaly mentions, there is a brake sensitivity adjustment dial for the load cell, they include additional tunable vibration motors for ABS or other effects, and of course the pedal pads can be moved around, or just plain replaced with A/M Tilton options from DSD. Not sure how much of this V1 includes.

    They added even more options for V3 where the pedal stiffness and travel can be easily adjusted with a collar dial, load sensitivity can be adjusted in the software profiles, Fanatec now provides their own Tilton pedal extension options with even more placement and angle options, there are optional dampers available for brake and gas, the load cell is now rated at 90 kg with 12 bit resolution, and another brake pedal high stiffness kit can be purchased for those that prefer the stiffness of many of the higher pedals on the market.

    And then there is the inverted pedal version of the V3 pedals. And all have robust metal housings and components. Some very good options in the mid price range!
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    Troy Dalton's Avatar
    Troy Dalton is offline KEEP CALM and SIM RACE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Cohn View Post
    Troy, you know how the ECCI pedals have the hardness (squeezing-rotors feel) at the end of the brake zone after the soft initial travel? The Fanatec feels like it ONLY has that with the load cell mechanism not having a lot of movement, an effective shortcut if you will that I think is what makes it easier to . The standard PMB2 (as read from previous emails with ECCI) is meant to more represent a passenger car type of profile in that it has the soft initial feel, long travel, and then BAM you have the PMB2 kick in. However, from reading a previous exchange with John Pribble of ECCI, it seems that their Stage 2 and 3 PMBII (at least the profiles - still talking to John who has always provided incredible customer service) may be able to achieve this same feel.

    I'd be curious if you would interested in comparing the two in similar conditions as far as lap time, feel, etc. to see the difference? I don't doubt that the short 'race-car' throw would be a lot to get used to, but after hearing people gaining seconds from Fanatec load cells after using lesser pedal sets, I'd really want to see how they'd compare to something like our ECCIs.

    One correction I should probably make - maybe it isn't the load cell only but just having the shorter travel that I felt was such a difference.
    As you say, the ECCI PMB2 does a great job of replicating that progressive passenger car profile. Initially soft, then progressively harder. I would say at it lowest settings, the PMB2 does a really good job of representing a TS or TC class car, like a Mini Cooper, MX-5, etc. Then as you stiffen the PMB2 you get more into the range of a GT class car, like the BMW or Porsche. I don't recall which setting I have mine on, but it's VERY stiff and it did take a short amount of time to adapt to it, but to be honest, I had a harder time transitioning from non-FFB wheel to an FFB wheel. Years ago, I had the opportunity of driving an Indycar and I can't recall any difference between the ECCI and the real thing. I'm not saying they identical, but it was pretty intuitive.

    The load cell gets delivered today, so I'll get a chance to check it out this weekend and report back. I also think your right about the travel. That was the biggest difference for me. That and the fact that it took quite a bit more pressure to whoa the car down.
    Marc Cohn likes this.

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